Margo Lalich- Making Visible the Invisible: A Conversation about Death and Dying

North Coast EOL Collective

Mission, Vision, Values

Collective Story and Founders

Death Cafe

Benefit Corporations for Good

In this special episode, Margot Lalich, the co-founder of the North Coast End of Life (EOL) Collective, joins us to talk about the organization's work in creating a collective approach towards death and dying. She shares her insights on the need for society to understand, prepare, and have a living relationship with mortality, challenging the fear, stigma, and taboo surrounding death.

She also shares about her many years work with community health.

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Transcript

[00:01] Jan: Are you looking for an inspiring listen, something to motivate you? You've come to the right place. Welcome to Women of the Northwest, where we have conversations with ordinary women leading extraordinary lives. Motivating, inspiring, compelling.

[00:20] Margo Lalich: But also this sense of how do we start to rebuild a relationship that's with our mortality, with death and dying, that isn't based in fear, isn't overwhelmed with taboos and stigma that becomes normalized.

[00:39] Jan: Welcome, everyone, to Women of the Northwest. So happy that you are listening today because we've got a treat. I have Margot Lolich with me. Welcome, Margo.

[00:49] Margo Lalich: Thank you. Thanks for inviting me.

[00:51] Jan: We are going to go through probably, I don't know, a dozen topics because we got one extraordinary woman here.

[00:59] Margo Lalich: And I have a passion project that's just been germinating for a long time and then finally was synthesized about a year and a half ago when it launched. It was in development for about two and a half years with two co founders, and it's the North Coast EOL Collective. And EOL is end of life. And some of that was coming out of the pandemic and just realizing how ill prepared we are as a society, as a community, to really support and understand and have a living relationship with our mortality. And so the vision of the North Coast EOL Collective is a collective approach to death and dying, because we've medicalized death and dying, you know, over the decades, and really bringing it back to the community. So you can see there's that foundation of community, public health. Right. But also this sense of how do we start to rebuild a relationship that's with our mortality, with death and dying, that isn't based in fear, isn't overwhelmed with taboos and stigma that becomes normalized. And so there are many components to the collective. A big part of it is education. And I oversee the education component, which is available to anyone, anywhere. Most of it's web based. And then we also, I facilitate and I've been involved with death cafes for a very long time. But death Cafes, which are opportunities for individuals in the community to come together and sit in a space and actually talk about death and dying, which seems like, why would you want to do that? You'd be surprised about how many people want to do that, who show up of all ages, who are bringing their stories, their anecdotal stories, their belief systems, their cultural identity all into these conversations. And it's almost. You can just feel this exhale that happens in the room. And so that's been going on here locally for a year. It's Been down once a month in Nehalem. One is starting in Seaside in November and hopefully we'll move up the coast. It was also virtual for a while. And then we provide a number of other services. One of my co founders has a career in hospice and palliative care and she is a manager for a health system full time. But she also has a private practice focused on grief and bereavement. And then our other co founder is much more focused on legacy and the fine arts. So we have a fabulous website, I'll just say that. And people are welcome to visit that. So that's really a passion project. And we are not a nonprofit. We went through the rigorous, rigorous process of becoming B Corps. Not because we are business that's out to sell a product and make money, but it's really that commitment to changing the paradigm that to have a social impact, to do good, you must be a nonprofit. And really returning to this idea of a collective approach and that we can create something in the how do we as community assign value to it?

[04:17] Jan: Right.

[04:18] Margo Lalich: And it's been a fascinating, fascinating kind of unfolding emergence. And I think it's just the conversations that it has ignited and how that is evolving and when those moments when individuals will go, I never thought about it that way, right. And I'm like, it's just so interesting. The thing that we spend our lives avoiding prematurely, which is our death, that we're most afraid of, because for many people, they don't have certainty about what happens after we have this idea that anything related to that should be charitable or should be non profit, right. Or very, very, very expensive to the point where it debilitates people's lives because it's related to our. How costly our healthcare system is, right. To fortunately save our lives. Right. But also for all that we do to navigate treatment and experimental treatments. And so yet when we want to come together in community and create this collective approach and relationship with community to support one another, there's no value to that. It's fascinating. It's absolutely fascinating. So that takes me to. Back to my kind of sociological roots, honestly, as social systems. How is it that we've evolved this direction and what does that look like? And so we've been, you know, we serve the north coast, Tillamook and Clatsop counties, but words out, I mean, we get contacted by entities in the east Coast. We have a book forum that's happening right now with over 100 participants from around the country with a. A leader in sort of the end of life Arena. And so it's. That's been fascinating. So that's something I've been doing and stimulating. Super stimulating conversations and. Yeah. And then. Yeah. And many projects connected with that. I mean, I've been working with a small community in Tillamook that's very, very isolated, who reached out to the collective, a small group of that community, and said, we're really impressed with the work that the collective is doing and we'd like to meet with you and have a conversation. And this started a few months ago, and we've met and had a couple conversations and they've said, you know, we would really like to maybe formalize a project within our community. There's about 80 of us that live in this unincorporated community. Many of us are older, most of us. What would it look like if we formally adopted, basically, an initiative or project under their community association that's focused on aging in place and preparing for end of life? This is now a community approach. Right. A collective approach. And so we worked to kind of develop what that whole launch would be for this particular initiative that will be very much about capacity building, community driven. And we met Saturday and we launched this project and we, you know, there were many aspects to it, and one was kind of a. A large group, if you will, SWOT analysis of just really looking at what are our strengths, our weaknesses, our opportunities, the threats that will support us or prevent us from aging in place and, you know, navigating the end of life that we imagine for ourselves. Yeah, it was amazing. This community came together and said, we want to do this.

[08:01] Jan: Yeah, yeah.

[08:02] Margo Lalich: So it, yeah, it just. All these things are percolating up and it's such an honor to be a part of it. And we're learning and exploring and creating together. And I just think, oh, this is what we're supposed to be doing.

[08:15] Jan: Yeah, yeah. Here's your purpose right now. And I can see how all of the things that you learned over your years as county health, you know, and administrating and all that work together, they all weave together.

[08:27] Margo Lalich: Yeah, it's just kind of this synthesis of all of it.

[08:30] Jan: Yeah. So describe a little bit. If a person wanted to join into a cafe, what would that look like? What. What happens there? What.

[08:38] Margo Lalich: Oh, when they come. So this is what it looks like, for example, in Nehalem, and it's a collaboration with the North Coast Recreation District. They wanted to be a partner for us, and they treat us as if we're a non profit, even though formally we're not a nonprofit. And again, that was a very conscious and long decision process that we had about that. And so we are in their fireplace room and a facilitator of a death cafe. It's, it's a model with fidelity. It came out of the UK quite some time ago. And it's. So I come and I set up the room. We sit in a circle. I usually bake something, you know, we.

[09:19] Jan: Have tea because what's the meaning without food?

[09:21] Margo Lalich: I bring real cups, nice ceramic cup from a potter who's no longer alive but used to live in Cannon beach. And really just create kind of that space and ambiance that makes people feel welcome and comfortable. And then it's in person. Death cafes are an hour and a half and it's from 4 to 5:30. How do people know about it? Our collective has a listserv. And so at the beginning of each month I send out an email just letting people know what's happening in terms of the education in death cafes specifically, we have a whole calendar of events where we post a lot of other things on that. And then I also use the BBQ to advertise on that, to let people know. And then people I always ask to let me know if they're coming because it's nice to have at least five people. Sometimes I get an email. Most of the time people just show up. There can be anywhere from five to 15 people. Some people know each other, sometimes it's strangers. I've had people all the way from across the river come all the way to Nehalem wanting to be a part of the conversation. People maybe are navigating the end of life process for a loved one, a spouse, someone in their home, somebody may be experiencing grief and bereavement from loss. I, you know, there have been participants who recently had a diagnos diagnosis of Alzheimer's and yet they're still very functional. And so they're really thinking about, you know, advanced care planning. And we're all certified advanced care planners in the collective and. Or I'll have someone who's been in pastoral care who has now become an end of life doula. I've had a woman in her 40s who was the least likely candidate to have a stroke and had a stroke and has been in rehabilitation and had children and is like, I never thought I'd be navigating and thinking about my mortality at this point in my life. So people come with all kinds of stories. Sometimes there's tears. It's about holding space. I just facilitate the conversation. There's no agenda. And rarely does it ever need a prompt. People come and they want to talk. They listen well, they speak well, and people also start to build connection. And out of it, some other things have launched in the community. And so it's just really holding that space. And people always feel better afterwards. And, you know, they just come when they know they need to come. And it's such an honor. And there's so much wisdom in that, in that circle.

[12:10] Jan: Right?

[12:10] Margo Lalich: There's so much wisdom in it.

[12:12] Jan: Yeah. Feels good, doesn't it?

[12:15] Margo Lalich: Yeah. You know, there's no right or wrong. And, you know, people have their, you know, some people have their fears, and they want to be able to talk about those fears, or they're navigating conflict within their family, because some people want things one way or they think things should be one way, and others maybe deviate from what has been a familial or social norm in their community, and they just want to be able to talk about it without being judged. And death cafes are not therapy. They're not grief groups.

[12:49] Jan: It's just a safe place.

[12:50] Margo Lalich: It's just a safe place. And part of the fidelity of the model is that you cannot charge to be to host a death cafe. And there's also an international website, so anything that's virtual can be posted on that website as well. And sometimes people, if they're able, they want, they contribute to the collective, and if not, and we don't give it a second thought.

[13:14] Jan: Right, right. What motivated you to go down this path, explore doing this and.

[13:21] Margo Lalich: Oh, the end of life collective? Yeah, well, like I said, you know, it was really a synthesis of, I think, just everything. My personal experiences with loss and death and dying, my perspective on witnessing it individually and at a community level naturally and also traumatically in so many different parts of the world. Certainly my practice clinically, you know, I've been a, you know, clinical nurse in the hospital as well as home health, but always a life embedded in public health. And then I think, just most recently, the pandemic. And then also I think, for me, always pondering why is it we don't talk about certain things? And knowing. I had two children, my older son was born with significant disabilities. He had severe hydrocephalus when he was born, and he lived to be chronologically 23 years old. And he defied so much, and his death was actually unexpected. He had a shunt failure that ended up in another shunt failure while he was hospitalized, and it caused a brain hemorrhage. But in living his life And I think part of it is, again, some of my clinical background. Growing up in a family where conversations about death and dying were not taboo. My parents were always absolutely so clear about their values, what they wanted, what they didn't want, and they had truly grace filled deaths. I was able to support them, both of them, through that. And they died exactly how they wanted to, from their death to their body disposition, everything. And how much easier it was, how much calmer it was, how honorable it was to be able to just have that knowledge and to show up really as an offering. And so with my son navigating, living with him was about navigating so many of the contradictions in our lives, right? A society that wants to take care of everyone and save every life and provide rights for every human being, all of which is indisputably important and necessary, and yet we actually don't fulfill that commitment very well. There's so many contradictions through how we fund organizations, how we value positions for the type of work that they're doing, providing adequate funding for housing with dignity, and then also thinking in my son's life, what infrastructures are in place to care for him if something happens to me. And so there was a way that he and I could navigate conversations. He couldn't think in the abstract. He was very concrete in his thinking. But when, you know, I was faced with the end of his life, I remember two things distinctly. And one was sitting in the hospital. He was in the neuro ICU unit. And I think it was after his second surgery because after that shunt failure in the hospital, it caused additional brain damage. And he, you know, his brain was affected from being born with hydrocephalus. So everything from his vision to cerebral palsy to speech to everything was affected by him. He was functional, but everything was affected. And so I remember just sitting on the bed and getting back to that global perspective of thinking about parents, but as a mother, thinking about these mothers around the world who've made such selfless decisions about how to protect their children in the midst of the most unimaginable circumstances. And thinking about Gabriel's life, this extraordinary life that he lived to his fullest potential, and also in keeping him alive, I would be keeping him alive for my sake and not his.

[18:00] Jan: Yeah.

[18:00] Margo Lalich: And I was so clear about that. And there was this moment when things shifted. And it helped that I had a clinical background and that team was just amazing. At St. Vincent's where I knew now we weren't intervening to reverse what had happened and brought him to the hospital. But we were now starting to chase other things that were going to start happening. And I just knew in that moment, it's time to take him home, because he's going to lead this life with the same grace and dignity and integrity in which he lived it. And they didn't think he would make it home. And I'm like, nope, we're gonna take him home in our pop top Eurovan with his golden retriever. And, you know, we brought him home and he lived almost another week surrounded by community and home with his dog on his bed. And it was just such. It was such a bittersweet, horrific. I still. I will always grieve him at the loss of him and the weight of making that decision. It will always be the hardest decision of my life. At the same time, that balance between the living well and ending well, right, it just. It just. It just arrived at this place of grace. And I remember the hospital staff said to me, you showed us the difference between selfish love and selfless love. And it was right before Christmas, and the whole team from the hospital sent me this box. Like, this is the clinical team. And the charge nurse said, you'll understand why. This is the box of love. It's an extraordinary story. And. And I opened it up, and there were about 50 handmade ornaments. And all the staff in the hospital, the housekeepers, everyone, they wrote messages on these ornaments.

[20:13] Jan: Wow.

[20:14] Margo Lalich: Amazing. Amazing. And for the first few years, you know, I just. I. That I called it, you know, the tree of angels that year, because I'm like, how do you decorate a tree when someone you deeply love has just died? Right before Christmas, there were lights, but what do you do? And all of a sudden, this box of love arrived, and every one of those got hung on the tree. Amazing story, right? And so here I tell you this with such sorrow. I can feel the weight in my heart, and yet I'm smiling. Yes, Because. Because we have this ability. I think there is this invitation to be with what is inevitable. And one of the most profound experiences we will all share. It will be different, the details, the how, the when, the why, but we will all lead this physical life. And so is there a way that we as community can come together to do it better for all of us? All of us? So that's. It's. It's a calling. You know, it's just like, I couldn't not do it. And I have these two amazing co founders. We were strangers. One reached out to me and called me and said, I found you on the Internet. This is for the collective launched or any of that. And she was amazing in her late 20s and said all of my graduate work she had, her MFA was doing legacy work and storytelling through Fab Fine Arts and textiles. I said, well, I'm about to have this conversation with this other person that I was told to contact. Let's. Let me get back to you. So I met with this other person. We just again, that was Abigail McNeil and we just connected and we knew that we had to continue the conversation. So then the three of us came together. This is about two and a half years ago in my living room, rainy day, cup of tea. So Caroline Esterrett who goes between Portland and Neitharts and Abigail who lives in Arch Cape and myself. And we just like, we just, it, it was a calling and we came together and we look and finally I said what are we going to do? And it was just like, we can't not do this. Yeah. And so that was the beginning of the North Coast EOL Collective. And it was about a year or so and just deep soul work like how, how do we do this? And so our stories on the website. But yeah, so here we are.

[22:58] Jan: So here we are. Wow. Wow. How cool is.

[23:08] Margo Lalich: Yeah. So my undergraduate degree is actually in sociology and I was very interested in family systems cross culturally. And then when I got married I landed here on the north coast. So that was the late 80s and I was sort of figuring out what to do and I was always passionate about public health and knew I would do my graduate work in public health. But then I learned that there was a nursing program here in the community and that they had scholarships available and there were two science scholarships that were full rides through the nursing program. And so I applied for one of them and fortunately received it. And so that's how I ended up in the nursing program here. And I graduated in 93. And as soon as I started the nursing program, it just seemed so intuitive and I was exactly where I was supposed to be, knowing that my trajectory would be in the public health field. And then I went to graduate school at OHSU at a time when very few nurses had their master's in public health. It was mostly physicians. They were epidemiologists, biostatisticians. I have a couple epidemiologists in my family over in the uk and so yeah, I went to school primarily with physicians, even though it was a granted five year cohort project with OHSU School of Nursing. So I graduated in 2002 from OHSU and then I've Done a little bit of postgraduate studies at Johns Hopkins.

[24:50] Jan: When you were starting in that field then with mostly physicians, how did that, how did you see things change once there were nurses in the realm?

[25:02] Margo Lalich: Yeah, it was, you know, public health has always been very much kind of a niche field for a long time, I would say, until probably about 15 years ago maybe, it seems like. And so going to school with physicians, it was just a different mindset of the way that they think. And I've always been very interested in infectious disease and epidemiology, but my focus actually was public health, community health, nursing. And I think where it changed with more people, not only an undergraduate getting a degree in public health, but their master's in public health is one. It was becoming a requirement for positions, particularly at the state and federal level, or even in executive leadership at the local level. And so I think that that was part of it within the nursing profession. And now so many people are either studying public health as an undergraduate pursuit or, you know, in at a graduate level.

[26:02] Jan: What did you enjoy most about it?

[26:05] Margo Lalich: My practice or studying?

[26:07] Jan: Oh, the practice, I think.

[26:09] Margo Lalich: Yeah. So I am just a hopeless romantic when it comes to public health. The history of public health is fascinating, and I will say it saddens me that many people who do practice in public health and study public health actually don't know a lot about the history of public health. And public health was our original healthcare system before we entered into this world of a privatized, for profit healthcare system. And so that was part of it is. It just absolutely fascinated me how that population health perspective, how it wasn't just about providing care for the individual, but to see the community as the patient and how we start to address things more at a systemic level. Right. And it always started with sanitation, right? Water, sanitation, infectious disease, before we could treat so many communicable infectious diseases. So I think for me there, that's really the foundation of my interest in public health. And then looking at how it was practiced in so many other parts of the world, particularly, you know, one country comes to mind in the UK and the National Health Service. And while it has so many challenges at this point in time, nurses are so deeply embedded in community there. And so they're not just isolated in one particular form of practice. And it's kind of how our public health nurses used to be in Clatsop. There was a point in time, up until really into the 90s, where our public health nurses were the jail nurse, they were the school nurse, they were the clinic nurse, they were the maternal child health home visiting nurse. And so they were deeply embedded in community and the generations that existed within communities. So it was very, very relational. The foundation of trust was there and these nurses really knew their community and those in the community, those in the schools, really trusted their nurses. And so there's this high level of expertise and knowledge. And it was also very difficult to get a job in public health as a public health nurse back then. There just weren't very many openings. It was a very coveted position and it was a revered position. And it also required more education than what was required to become, become a hospital nurse.

[28:38] Jan: And so was it more education because you had to know more things? It was a broader scope.

[28:43] Margo Lalich: Yeah, because it's there, it's much more, there's much more systems thinking involved in practicing public health. And you know, one example I have is a colleague of mine who had spent, and this is a very recent example, had spent much of her career really in the private sector, you know, caring for patients, very task oriented care, important, but task oriented care, and made her way into public health. And because she had such a curious mind, she really saw how the practice of public health is really about the community, it's about the big picture. And while you may be treating some things in isolation, kind of the root cause of what you're treating is beyond just that individual. And so she spent a number of years in public health and actually became quite a voice with some of the state public health programs and really started understanding how the pieces are connected and then has since returned back to the private sector, but more at a programmatic level. And because of the time that she has spent in public health, her ability to enhance the work that she's doing within the private healthcare system programmatically is really quite profound. And she is such an asset to that organization because she can see how things work internally, but she has this broader understanding of how it's all connected at the community level. And so for me, I just, it's such a benefit to the community, but it's also just a way for me to celebrate the importance and the foundation of public health in all of our lives.

[30:31] Jan: I just finished reading a book that was about a girl who at 18 became a teacher in Appalachia and in the 1800s and all of the health issues that were there, but because of their culturally ingrown things about life, beliefs about life and a lot of wives tales and whatever, trying to get them to have clean water or get them to, you know, just all of these diseases that went through and just trying to understand the culture first. But when you're talking about trust. Yeah, that's huge.

[31:08] Margo Lalich: Yeah. I think for me, you know, bringing it to present time because I've had the opportunity to be in many, many different cultures as well as practice and be a part of some projects in different cultures as well. So I have that. I always say the global perspective. Right. Which I think has always helped me stay grounded and have perspective on the issues that we need to address our own home and community. And then. But when you were talking about, you know, trust, I think that's one of the. One of the important lessons learned that came out of the pandemic. And, you know, at a personal and professional level, what helped me have perspective about the situation was understanding public health and community health not only at a local level, but at a global level. Right. And remembering that there are so many communities around the world that were functioning at that level of crisis every single day simply because they don't have clean water, they don't have proper sanitation, they don't have healthy food sources. And so that, for me was just so grounding in keeping everything in perspective. But just to get back to your previous question, I have a long connection with Hawaii personally and professionally, and I've also done work there. And that is interesting because they have a state public health system, and then they have their. Each of their islands kind of has their own local operation. But in Hawaii, the public health nurses are still the community health nurses. They're embedded in the community. They're the school nurses. They're doing work with the elderly. They're doing the emergency preparedness, the communicable disease, the maternal child health. And so when you go there, when I would. I've worked there in a number of capacities. And when I was traveling back and forth for a consultation project I was on for about a year and a half recently, people would ask, when I pick up my rental car, what do you do? And I say, oh, I'm here to do public health work. And with the public health nursing branch and immediately, whoever it was, the rental car agent, wherever, thank you so much for your service. There's that recognition of the importance of public health nurses to their community. Yeah, you don't see that here anymore. We used to, but we don't see that here anymore. Most people don't really understand what public health does anymore. And, you know, I was hoping, during the pandemic, we tried to kind of connect the history of public health in Clatsop county to its impact in our Present day response.

[34:07] Jan: And so tell us a little bit more. What really, what is the role of public health here?

[34:11] Margo Lalich: Well, the role of public health, in basically one sentence, is to minimize the risk of morbidity and mortality. Right. So we're all going to die. That's a given. And inevitably will develop some type of disability in our lifetime, even if it's just simply related to the aging process. But what are the risk factors that contribute to that? And what can we either mitigate or eliminate to prevent premature morbidity, premature death or morbidity or mortality? Right. So it's morbidity is the disability, mortality is the death and dying. And so, so we look at that, and that's why we use epidemiology, which is really statistics, is we look at things in the bigger picture and explore what are the causative factors that are contributing to a particular outbreak. Right. A particular living condition. And it could be lead. Right. It could be secondhand smoke or tobacco smoke, or it could be air quality or water quality. And as we know, there are times when we have boil water notices and why? Because the water is not safe to drink and it will cause sickness and illness in people. Right. So we're constantly testing our water. And there's so many examples of this. And I always, you know, say that public health, a lot of people don't understand what public health does anymore. And in some ways that's a good thing. It means we're doing a good job because we are the gatekeeper of the community's health. And behind the scenes, 24 hours, seven days a week, there are people on call or we're responding to making sure that the food that you eat in restaurants is safe. Right. That the water, our public works departments are making sure that the water we drink is safe, that our sewage and sanitation programs are working, that our drinking wells are safe in unincorporated areas that have private drinking water systems. Right. And that we have clinics to treat communicable diseases and to also identify who may have been a contact to a communicable disease so they can be treated promptly. Right. There's so many ways we do this. And also we have like women, infant and children nutrition program. Right. So we can have healthy pregnancies and healthy newborns. And we have our maternal child health programs as well to support those moms who need that support through a healthy pregnancy or if they've had a complicated pregnancy or issues with a newborn, you know, a nurse can go to their home and spend time with them to make sure that they have A healthy and appropriate development.

[36:49] Jan: So you are pairing partners with legislators and partners with hospitals and local, other medical. Yeah.

[36:58] Margo Lalich: And the best of all world, you know, public health is a public agency. Right. It has certainly challenges with funding. You know, there's lots of money when it's a crisis. But when we just need to sustain an infrastructure, it doesn't unfortunately is not as high as it used to be in the priority list. And then there's just organizational changes that happen. Public health, like so many other, you know, public agencies are as good or strong as our elected officials who understand and appreciate public health and as much as the community values it. Right. So it really has evolved and changed in many ways for myself. There's times when it feels unrecognizable anymore. It's, it's, it's, it still does has its important statutory responsibilities, but most public health agencies do so much more than what's just statutorily required. And they can't do it alone. They have to do it with all of their other, you know, community based organizations. Yeah. So. But I've been retired from public health now for a while. Yeah.

[38:13] Jan: Also then the people who are working in those fields are compassionate people and they're looking, they're helpers, they're fixers, you know, that helps.

[38:24] Margo Lalich: Yeah, I think it's different, you know, it depends if you're in environmental health or, you know, what specialty is, you know, of interest, what brings someone into public health. Most people who do go into public health, they might be interested in policy. So they're going to want to be in Salem working on policy and legislation. Others are, you know, like your nurses are wanting to do that, hands on care. But there is that sense of care and concern and responsibility to the community. And I've always said, and it was my mantra through the pandemic. I started the pandemic. I was executive director of a program in Hawaii at that time there. And then I was asked if I would come back to my former position here. And I would always say the health and wellbeing of the community is a shared responsibility. And I think we all may say that in different ways. But for individuals who just feel that call into public health, they want their communities to be better. And there's so many ways of doing it. And public health is just one, one piece of it, one part of it.

[39:30] Jan: Right, right. So you're retired and have done some other things like maybe paddling and other activities.

[39:38] Margo Lalich: Yeah, that, that concept of retirement's a funny one because it doesn't really resonate with me. And I've never really thought about my life or my career in the context of I work and then I retire. So I had to kind of formulate what is my response. And so I say retired from executive leadership. That's, that's, that's what I've done.

[39:58] Jan: Yeah.

[39:59] Margo Lalich: And so I've continued doing some consulting. Public health consulting.

[40:03] Jan: Yeah.

[40:04] Margo Lalich: I'm an avid hiker. I hike all over the place. And I just. Speaking of end of life, I just came back from Hawaii and I was part of. I'm on the women's dragon boat team. We have a wonderful one in that story now, but there's been one down in the Nehalem Bay for, I think, probably about 13, 14 years now. And I've been with them since 2018.

[40:26] Jan: And of course, you listened to that episode.

[40:29] Margo Lalich: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. And so, anyway, so a handful of us from our team in Halem were invited to join an outrigger team in Hawaii for their annual Paddle for Life event for the Pacific Cancer Foundation. And. But it was the first time in five years that they'd done the paddle from Maui to Lanai, stayed overnight and paddled back. And so we were part of that. Got back a little over a week ago, and just amazing. Overall, I think the event raised close to $300,000.

[41:01] Jan: Oh, my goodness. Wow.

[41:02] Margo Lalich: Yeah. And people don't realize Hawaii, you know, tertiary cares on Oahu. People have to fly between islands to get a lot of care and support. It's much more logistically challenging there. And, you know, there are many people who live in Hawaii who don't have the resources as well, so. Yeah.

[41:21] Jan: So just feeds your soul, doesn't it?

[41:24] Margo Lalich: Yeah, yeah.

[41:25] Jan: All these things to help to be a part of the bigger community and make things happen. Yeah.

[41:31] Margo Lalich: We're all connected, right? We're all connected. But the north coast is my home. Cannon beach has been my home for a long time and. Yeah. Yeah. Just really grateful to still be part of this community. It's amazing.

[41:45] Jan: Thank you so much. I want to put the links in the show notes. Well, listeners, I don't know about you, but I found that concept of a death cafe totally intriguing and fascinating. As she says, death is a part of life, and everyone is going to experience at one time or another, or we're going to have loved ones that we are standing beside as well. So I would encourage you to check out her website. It is a beautiful website. Lots of information there. And contact Margo if you have questions or any comments or things that you'd want to discuss with her. She is a lovely person and I felt so comfortable with her. I would feel so comfortable discussing my thoughts and cares as well. So thank you, Margo, for being a part of our Women of the Northwest. You are truly extraordinary and I applaud your efforts. Okay listeners, here's another wrap up, so be sure and check out those show notes and we will see you next time. That's all for today. Did you know it's easy to share an episode with your friends when the podcast is open? Look for three dots, click on them and you'll see various options. You can download the episode, play it next or last, go to the show, save the episode, or copy the link. Isn't technology amazing? Hey, I'm looking forward to you joining me next time. I hope you have a great week.